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Reader comment on:
Don't Blame the Teachers
in response to reader comment: To MIchelle, the power of parents is limited

Submitted by Michelle, Jun 18, 2007 07:06

While it is true that many parents either lack knowhow and/or time in order to ensure the best education for their children, parent education and an increase in trained advocacy, combined with better enforcement of compliance with IDEA, 504, and other laws is the answer, not vouchers.

Because NCLB penalizes schools heavily for students with additional needs, vouchers will actually increase administrative hostility toward parents and reluctance to accomodate moderate to severe student needs. Struggling students that are considered below the "bubble" level of need, for whatever reason, will be ENCOURAGED to leave, rather than the school wanting to invest the time and effort to support their needs. "Bubble" students are those whose scores were just below passing the prior year on the state test, or who show skills at that "just below passing" level for those that have not yet taken the state test (e.g. 3rd graders and below). You should see the panic incured in larger schools when a subgroup that traditionally struggles with academics starts to reach "subgroup" status (25 or more students in the group). The attitude is already apparent in larger schools where special education (and/or ELL) groups are above 25 kids, that made AYP with every group except the special ed (or ELL) kids... We did it! It was "just" the sped kids (or ELL kids) that pulled us down. Maybe some will move away next year.... While ELL kids do have a great shot at making AYP with good programming (my school is heavily ELL... 77 of our 450 kids meet that category, and we make AYP in ELL consistently), remember that by its very definition, special education is for kids with disabilities, whose disabilities interfere with learning. Kids can be disabled and NOT be in special education because those disabilities do not interfere with their learning. By its very definition, special education as a subgroup is made up of kids who are long shots for "proficient" scoring on grade-level tests (although I manage to have one or two of my 25 or so resource kids pull a "proficient" score in reading, and about 1/3 of my kids scoring proficient in math and/or science each year... that's not enough to satisfy the state). So if the entire school is penalized because sped is a subgroup and it destroys the school's shot at making AYP, what do you think the attitude of the administrators and regular ed teachers are going to be toward those kids?

As a special education teacher, I have students that count against my school up to four times during state testing. ONE score counts in the overall school score, the ethnicity subgroup score, the ELL score, and the special education score.... and these are the neediest students who can make great gains during the year but still be below grade level in ability, often to the extent that their gains are completely below the test's radar. If I have a fifth grader who goes from being unable to read at all to a 1.5 grade reading level by March (a 2 year gain), do you think that this will show on a test that is targeted at 3 more year levels above the student's current skills? Beginning step skills are beginning step skills, after all... and that student is counted a failure by the state regardless. An "average" student making 2 years of gain in one year would be tested for gifted... yet my students are "catching up" when they are finally mature enough to apply their non-language smarts toward language skills. Do you think, with all that funding riding on the outcome, not to mention the jobs of all the teachers and administrators on the line if restructuring happens, that if we had vouchers then kids like this wouldn't be subjected to subtle torment to "encourage" them to voucher their way somewhere else? They would be passed like hot potatoes from school to school. Private schools would be reluctant as well... one reason why private schools tend to look good in the data is that they can truly be selective in which students they take. Even when they take kids with special needs, they usually limit the numbers there and/or only take the mildest cases... and all their special needs kids still are given services through the public schools (ref. IDEA). Early in my career I subbed regularly at a public school resource room in which five mild-level (e.g. potential "bubble") special needs kids were bussed (at public school expense) every day from their private school to spend a half hour daily with the public school resource teacher, and a half hour with the speech therapist once per week. The public school was still responsible for meeting these kids' special needs, not the private school. In studies where student abilities and home environment are taken into account, and where class size is kept at a similar level to public schools, most private schools score close to public schools for student academic success. If private schools start taking vouchered truly low-performing students whose issues are language, home life, and/or disabilities, their overall scores will drop.

Until the accountability system is revamped, vouchers can mean major problems for the neediest students as SCHOOLS become selective in who they'll take. It works both ways. Such selectivity will, out of legal necessity, be subtly done and hurt the student worse than a direct "sorry, we won't take him" could. Instead the goal will be the parents complaining of a plethora of mildly (to avoid court) inadequate services to the point where the administrator can comfortably say... "Well, if you're not happy with us, you can always take your child and voucher him somewhere else..."

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Other reader comments on this article

Comment	By	Date
Mayor Bloomberg and Chancellor Joel Klein have hoodwinked the public into thinking that conditions in our schools are improving.... [MORE]	Ed Greenspan	Oct 28, 2007 16:15
I was reading your comments, and I was thinking about what the real role of the teacher is, because I... [MORE]	Dulce Dedieu	Sep 3, 2007 15:43
After a daunting first year of teaching, I can see why so many teachers leave the profession. First, we are... [MORE]	Donna	Jun 18, 2007 19:54
After reading this article and many of the comments, I felt I had to say something. I have been a... [MORE]	Heather Perkins	Jun 18, 2007 12:09
One of the problems we have in this country is assigning blame…….We are great at blaming everyone else but not... [MORE]	Bob Dean	Jun 17, 2007 11:36
Re. Don't Blame the Teacher By Diane Ravitch The responsibility for educating a child is placed squarely in the hands of... [MORE]	Phyllis Cynthia Murray	Jun 16, 2007 17:28
When I first read Ravitch's article I thought....great points. Yes, in poorer nations children are hungry for learning and success.... [MORE]	MLR	Jun 16, 2007 13:50
BRAVO to Diane Ravitch! Teachers know the truth. We do everything we can. We talk to the students and to... [MORE]	Judith	Jun 16, 2007 10:51
Ms. Ravitch you are right. The detractors of public education in America have been fooling the public and even many... [MORE]	Paul Preston, Inside Education, Educational Talk Radio	Jun 16, 2007 09:30
To get a real picture of where the U.S. stands in regards to other countries on public education, see the... [MORE]	Debbie Smith	Jun 18, 2007 14:07
Ms.Ravitch starts her article with: "The meeting proceeded through the now-familiar litany of bad news: American students perform poorly on... [MORE]	Paul Preston, Inside Education, Educational Talk Radio	Jun 19, 2007 23:50
Paul, by commenting on the "litany of bad news" regarding the state of our public school system, Ms. Ravitch is... [MORE]	Debbie Smith	Jun 20, 2007 13:44
Thankfullly, we finally live in a state that has mandatory testing. It's a godsend since most of my childrens' teachers... [MORE]	Moira	Jun 15, 2007 23:03
Everyone who can remember when tests were measures of student success rather than the teacher's... raise your hand....! And by the... [MORE]	Michelle	Jun 18, 2007 07:27
Yes, BRAVO for NCLB, it is truly the first step in legislative efforts at public education reform. In addition to... [MORE]	Debbie Smith	Jun 18, 2007 14:14
To Diane Ravitch: Thank you! [MORE]	Dennis Fermoyle	Jun 15, 2007 21:28
I am a teacher and have been an assistant principal and a high school principal. I now work for the... [MORE]	Mary	Jun 15, 2007 20:07
Diane Ravitch--this is an awesome statement. Politicians, business people, most conservatives, and all those others who could never hold their... [MORE]	John E. Russo II	Jun 15, 2007 15:36
Those who want to blame the entire set of teachers for the state of education today have never bothered to... [MORE]	Michelle	Jun 15, 2007 13:08
Diane Ravich is absolutely correct in identifying the source of America's educational woes in students' lack of work ethic. But... [MORE]	Mary Hudson	Jun 15, 2007 11:39
I only partially agree, because I'm sure a very small percentage of students are as Ms. Ravitch describes. (A very... [MORE]	Anne Spence	Jun 15, 2007 08:27
I agree with Ms. Ravitch that student apathy is a real problem in government schools and with many of the... [MORE]	Crimson Wife	Jun 15, 2007 15:44
You are angry--that 's obvious. However, as a public school Teacher, with excellent evaluations and commendations, I know Diane Ravitch... [MORE]	John E. Russo II	Jun 15, 2007 16:12
I was saddened to read the posting from the mother of the dyslexic student. Having been a special educator for... [MORE]	Jeanne	Jun 18, 2007 10:25
Sorry to hear of your child's educational horror story. BTW, it's Johnny not Jonnie. Remember, teaching is a cultural act... [MORE]	rb	Aug 24, 2007 21:36
I'm a Chinese student. No offense to all the teachers in the US, I have to say that, from a... [MORE]	Vera	Oct 8, 2007 09:22
You dramatically made the case that politically correct textbooks reflect bad scholarship and are part of the problem in The... [MORE]	Jon T. Hill	Jun 14, 2007 19:36
Get rid of active engagement with reflection, expressivism, WAC, and other "dumbed down" nonsense based on racial and gender stereotypes.... [MORE]	Paul Cameron	Jun 14, 2007 19:18
As a committed liberal, I have never been a fan of Professor Ravitch's work--until now. It is good for both... [MORE]	Bernard Freydberg	Jun 14, 2007 19:06
Teachers teach the content set forth by the state standards and benchmarks. They have some say in formal curriculum adoptions,... [MORE]	Michelle	Jun 15, 2007 13:25
Who else is there to blame? Kids are sent to school. Teachers are paid to teach them. But they don't... [MORE]	Don Swearingen	Jun 14, 2007 19:05
Thank you for defending teachers. I taught special education for 17 years before being called to another career. I worked... [MORE]	Nancy	Jun 14, 2007 15:30
It's not that most parents don't support their children in school and that they don't push their children to work... [MORE]	Debbie Smith	Jun 14, 2007 14:16
School administrators are often caught between student need and lack of funding. This makes them horribly defensive, and have a... [MORE]	Michelle	Jun 15, 2007 13:43
I appreciate the sentiment you are expressing to the notion that if parents simply refuse to accept "no" for an... [MORE]	Debbie Smith	Jun 16, 2007 17:06
While it is true that many parents either lack knowhow and/or time in order to ensure the best education for...	Michelle	Jun 18, 2007 07:06
I agree with you that we need stronger legislation and better enforcement in our schools, but, the facts surrounding school... [MORE]	Debbie Smith	Jun 18, 2007 13:42
What Ravitch says is true, as far as it goes, but some things are the fault of the teaching profession,... [MORE]	Charles Connell	Jun 14, 2007 12:58
Kids get A's and B's for work that would have earned us C's and D's because when they get C's... [MORE]	Michelle	Jun 15, 2007 13:47
To: Ms. Ravitch and the Editors No doubt the teachers are wrongfully blamed for the past several decades of public education... [MORE]	Nancy Joyce Jancourtz	Jun 14, 2007 12:24
As the old saying goes, "You can't make chicken soup from chicken feathers". When most of a child's capacity for... [MORE]	Harold Brown	Jun 14, 2007 12:06
I love this article ! I am a special ed dept. head in a urban high school. There are some... [MORE]	Ben Hull	Jun 14, 2007 11:23
I am no expert, just a mother of four children, but I see that in families where there are high... [MORE]	sonja moran	Jun 14, 2007 11:14
Finally someone hears what we teachers are saying. Notice that we are never included in the discussion. Why is that?... [MORE]	Heather	Jun 14, 2007 11:08
Does no one hear the words of Jamie Vollmer? Students go to school and they are there no matter what... [MORE]	Jaime Cordero	Jun 15, 2007 10:41
"The parents are the primary educators of their children. As your school we are here to help" We found this... [MORE]	Linda Jalufka	Jun 14, 2007 10:54
To me, your article is clear and hits the 'Nail' right on the head. Your perspective is so obvious to... [MORE]	Robert D. Mossman	Jun 14, 2007 10:41
I am in my late 50's and have been teaching for 6 years here in North Carolina. In all that... [MORE]	Joe Grace	Jun 14, 2007 10:22
Throughout my years in education, particularly as an administrator, I have not always agreed with Diane Ravitch's ideas or conclusions,... [MORE]	Jim Little	Jun 14, 2007 09:46
I know an outstanding teacher who recently asked her students what career path they were interested in. About 60% said... [MORE]	Fred Jenson	Jun 14, 2007 09:14
The real reason why students are slackers, and why education is ridiculed, etc. is simple: students are forced to go... [MORE]	David	Jun 14, 2007 09:04
Students are the primary agents of their own learning. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make... [MORE]	Thomas Farrell	Jun 14, 2007 08:54

Reader comment on:Don't Blame the Teachersin response to reader comment: To MIchelle, the power of parents is limited

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Reader comment on:
Don't Blame the Teachers
in response to reader comment: To MIchelle, the power of parents is limited