We only interfere with religion under limited circumstances

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Reader comment on:
Oregon Legal Battle Ignites Debate on Circumcision
in response to reader comment: We interfere with religion all the time

Submitted by Ubu Walker, Sep 19, 2007 14:24

Firstly, the government will only interfere with religious choices if there is no less harmful alternative means to effectuate important policy goals. So, for example, if someone will die or be severely injured because of a religious practice, the government will step in. So, in the case of a Christian Scientist refusing medical treatment for his daughter who is gravely ill, the State will force her to be treated.

Secondly, the female genital mutilation argument is a red herring. Male circumcision is arguably a humane practice that causes little pain or long term suffering, which has been safely practiced for thousands of years, and can be done by a doctor. Female circumcision is not safely practiced, is grossly damaging to the victim, and is not done by doctors.

Thirdly, it is disingenuous to suggest that circumcision has nothing to do with who is a Jew. The penalty for not being circumcised is karet, "excision" from the people or being cut off from the community by God, as noted in Genesis 17:14. Circumcision is a covenant between G-d and his people. In fact, it was considered "a reproach" for an Israelite to be uncircumcised (Joshua 5:9) and the uncircumcised could not partake in the Pesach offering (Exodus 12:48).

Lastly, it is disingenuous to argue that circumcision equates in anyway to Biblical requirements to execute people engaged in certain types of lewd conduct. The death penalty for adultery and other biblical crimes have been done away with in modern Judaism since the middle ages, since Secular Law, not Jewish Law controls in offenses against the State.

A 13 year old man who has reached the religious age of majority can decide whether he wants to convert to Judaism and have a circumcision. If it is more likely than not that he is NOT mature enough to make this decision, or if he is being unduly influenced by his father, or if the procedure would be dangerous to him, than the court shouldn't allow it. Otherwise, it should be allowed, since doing otherwise would be meddling in religious affairs, instead of affairs of State.

If the argument is that circumcision is abhorrent, and should never be allowed, for anybody, for any reason, including religious convictions, than there can not be any discussion, since circumcision at 8 days is commanded by G-d for eternity.

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Other reader comments on this article

Comment	By	Date
For me forced circumcision is just an abhorrent business. 10 minutes for 180 ?$! Its an massive sexual manipulation. Based... [MORE]	Peter	Oct 8, 2007 14:23
This battle is not about religion, freedom of religion, the right to follow certain religious practices.....it is the father's desire... [MORE]	silver	Oct 3, 2007 02:01
Circumcision is an irreversible operation. The boy is twelve years old. Wait until he is eighteen and has the chance... [MORE]	Stephen	Sep 19, 2007 20:46
The courts should be wary of any allegation made by James Boldt, the man who wants to have his son... [MORE]	Michael Glass	Sep 19, 2007 19:28
Just to clarify, FGM or Female Genital Mutilation, including Female Circumcision, has been banned by a federal law for 10... [MORE]	Jay	Sep 19, 2007 11:35
In the Middle Ages Jews were said to kidnap Christian children, circumcise them, and even sacrifce them, drinking their blood.... [MORE]	John Geisheker	Sep 19, 2007 11:06
Somehow I'm not suprised that the executive director of Doctors Opposing Circumcision will make such an Anti-Semitic comment to this... [MORE]	Eileen	Sep 25, 2007 10:46
"What he's saying, in other words, is that now anti-Semitism can be justified because Jews seem to be acting in... [MORE]	Hugh	Oct 7, 2007 02:21
The commonsense solution to this legal wrangle is to wait till the boy is 18. Then the boy can decide... [MORE]	Michael Glass	Sep 19, 2007 10:10
"Surely a parent has the same authority to have a child's vision corrected or a birthmark on his face removed... [MORE]	Laura MacDonald	Sep 19, 2007 09:19
Americans are insane with their obsession of cutting the genitals of children! [MORE]	johndoe	Sep 19, 2007 01:13
The amici are misguided in representing circumcision as a medical decision. There are very few legitimate medical reasons to circumcise.... [MORE]	Ron Low	Sep 19, 2007 00:38
male circumcision should not be permitted on constitutional grounds because many states have passed laws banning female genital mutilation The only... [MORE]	Dan	Sep 19, 2007 00:37
It is fundamentally horrifying to remove sexual tissue from a nonconsenting female unless absolutely medically necessary. This would be the... [MORE]	Spacediver	Sep 18, 2007 22:48
If this was a daughter being considered for a religous circumcision, there is no doubt that it would be struck... [MORE]	Dan	Sep 18, 2007 22:39
A child should have a right to an intact body. Circumcision is barbaric, and religion is organized ignorance. [MORE]	Barrry	Sep 18, 2007 21:57
Seriously, just wait til he's 18. [MORE]	Aaron	Sep 18, 2007 19:16
In 2006, Judge Jordan Kaplan (Cook County, IL) ruled that the mother of an 8 year old boy could not... [MORE]	Dan	Sep 18, 2007 18:17
'Though studies have shown less incidence of sexually transmitted disease in circumcised men, Mr. Geisheker contends that circumcision is "non-therapeutic."'... [MORE]	Hugh Young	Sep 18, 2007 17:26
There primary issue here should be, what does this boy really want? Doesn't this boy need his own lawyer to represent... [MORE]	Butrg	Sep 18, 2007 14:02
This should not be up to the father. If the son wants this, he hsould wait until he is 18.... [MORE]	Jackie	Sep 18, 2007 09:28
And, er, "Jackie", you DO have a basis to comment on this? As the proud owner of a penis, I find... [MORE]	jvon	Sep 18, 2007 17:10
If the son wants it done, then let him have it done. Waiting till 18 does nothing for him. It... [MORE]	Joe	Sep 18, 2007 21:54
"You don't mention smegma. Its smells, and is always given off by the foreskin. I for one would not want... [MORE]	Tom	Sep 20, 2007 11:58
jvon: "As the proud owner of a penis, I find it highly unlikely that the foreskin is more sensitive than... [MORE]	Hugh	Oct 7, 2007 03:39
There are a lot of allegations flying around about this case and the court needs to find the truth in... [MORE]	O'Hara	Sep 18, 2007 08:25
Sir : I support the Jews and Israel in their fight for survival. Circumcision, male and female, appear to produce the same... [MORE]	Douglas Wagner	Sep 18, 2007 07:07
This child should be spared this 'ritual' based on the fact that IF done in a hospital setting, it will... [MORE]	Laurie	Sep 18, 2007 06:59
This, without a doubt, represents serious child abuse as practiced by our so-called intelligent culture. When will we discontinue the... [MORE]	Anthony D'Auria	Sep 18, 2007 12:27
In order for the boy to celebrate his Bar Mitzvah on his 13th birthday...and in order for the boy to... [MORE]	Ubu Walker	Sep 18, 2007 19:19
If as the Jewish community usually does this would have been done after 7 days, This boy is 12!! Leave... [MORE]	Bob	Sep 19, 2007 04:27
For 10 years now it has been illegal to circumcise little girls in this country, even if the parents are... [MORE]	Dan	Sep 19, 2007 10:20
Firstly, the government will only interfere with religious choices if there is no less harmful alternative means to effectuate important...	Ubu Walker	Sep 19, 2007 14:24
Ubu Walker asserts: "In order for the boy to celebrate his Bar Mitzvah on his 13th birthday...and in order for the... [MORE]	Child Protector	Sep 25, 2007 10:02
>There are many Rabbis who will welcome the boy into the Jewish faith... Firstly, all Conservative and Orthodox rabbis,... [MORE]	Ubu Walker	Sep 25, 2007 13:36
"Your freedom to swing your fist ends where my nose begins." Substitute "knife" and "genitals". Children need freedom of religion... [MORE]	Hugh	Oct 7, 2007 03:51

Reader comment on:Oregon Legal Battle Ignites Debate on Circumcisionin response to reader comment: We interfere with religion all the time

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Reader comment on:
Oregon Legal Battle Ignites Debate on Circumcision
in response to reader comment: We interfere with religion all the time