This book is an attempt to frame a sentiimental persepctive that the history does not actually support

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The Imperial Appetite

Submitted by D, Feb 8, 2008 09:24

I'd just like to point out that "arrogance" is hardly a Western monopoly. It is fundamental to the Chinese worldview; it is inherent in Islam, the ur-political identity under the Caliphate, whether Arab or Turkish; it is a defining sentiment of both sides of the abiding Arab-Persian conflict. Russia is not a Western state or culture - and yet it assumed for itself the title of "Third Rome" quite early in its post-Mongol self-conception. It was of course a bedrock presumption of Rome, Athenian or Spartan Greece, Pharaonic Egypt. Were the Japanese modest in their view of themselves? The Mongols? What country, exacly, displays this equinimity viz its actual or potential competitors? Certainly not the USSR or Red China. Who, exactly, has manifested this view besides a bunch of intellectuals - who have only founded totalitarian states, possibly the most chauvanistic of all political expressions?

What the author of this book does not point out is that it was in fact the chauvanism of these target empires were actually so extraordinarily arrogant that they were absolutely blind to (1) the virtues of setting up a commercial relationship with the Europeans - the purpose of every proto-imperial European venture, and (2) could not recognize that "the barbarians" or "the infidels" were sailing ships with guns capable of obliterating their ancient navies.

Secondly, the point concerning the contingency of European success in Asia and the Americas is well-taken - but this is a simple necessary precondition of the spread of all such influence. The Qing spread into China amidst Ming dissaray; the Ming empire itself was begun as a warlord-insurgency during a period of eventually fatal Yuan-Mongol weakness and decadence. Even the 20th and 21st century Islamist knows that the Sultanate went into decline immediately after Sulyeiman the Magnificent in the 17th century; even they know Muhammad Ali, pasha of Egypt in the early 19th century, posed a grave threat to the Sultanate and actually conquered much of Syria and the Hejaz before being finally repelled, and that Egypt's status became quasi-independent thereafter.

But finally - "modernity"? Modernity is an Anglo-American invention. It succeeds because its fruits allow, among other things, for better guns and for better governmental administration. What was the qualitative difference between the Islamic jurisprudence schools and the Chinese exam system? Not too much - they both were essentially classical literature degrees, although the Chinese modernized theirs in the 19th century somewhat. You know, histories on these subjects, told from a dispassionate perspective, are available on these subjects.

Anyway, I won't go on, but let's be clear that whoever wrote this book is simply demonstrating his own chauvanistic leftist solipsism, which in a better world would be the only censored thing in the public discourse. Anyone, for example, who relies on Edward Said as an authority of anything other than the "postcolonial" "movement" is an intellectual serf.

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Other reader comments on this article

Comment	By	Date
The Puritan rhetoric (our City on rhe Hill syndrome) which has kept median Americans from realizing how imperialistic we've covertly... [MORE]	Patrick D.Hazard	Feb 8, 2008 12:03
self-delusion on both an individual and collective basis is crucial for the human psyche. Russians remain proud of the might... [MORE]	Frankly Speaking	Feb 9, 2008 22:19
The imperial appetite of certain countries has never ended, indeed if anything it has grown. What has changed are the... [MORE]	Siddhartha S.Bhadrakumar	Feb 10, 2008 23:40
I wonder if Mr. Hazard would have the courage to spout the same if America hadn't saved him and his... [MORE]	Glenn Smith	Feb 12, 2008 18:15
I've just now had a chance to read "Frankly Speaking".It is a very thoughtful response for which I am grateful.... [MORE]	Patrick D.Hazard	Feb 13, 2008 10:26
Don't be so quick to assume America is about to elect either a woman or an African American man as... [MORE]	BklynGal305	Feb 14, 2008 17:38
Dear Mr.Smith: I came not to bury American Exceptionalism but to raise it:-- from Ideals to Realities. I used to... [MORE]	Patrick D.Hazard	Feb 21, 2008 03:00
Hey Sidd, what have you been smoking? Do you really think China is the victim of imperialism rather than the... [MORE]	ricardo maxwell	Feb 21, 2008 08:51
Upon reading Patrick Hazrads article I kept looking for substance, concrete unambiguous facts that would stand alone without the distraction... [MORE]	Michael Rodriguez	Mar 4, 2008 14:05
So, the burden of the intelligentsia is to show the poor masses the errors of their ways and to enlighten... [MORE]	Paul McCord	Mar 10, 2008 10:30
I'm not sure exactly what the poster said, but I am sure he said everything he knew about the subject. BTW... [MORE]	gxb	Mar 10, 2008 10:38
Mr. Hazard I know that you have the best intentions in your heart and it behoves me to respond. American... [MORE]	Gene Guffey	Mar 15, 2008 10:58
Besides the oft quoted rationale of 'opening new markets' abroad (with all the dubiety that it sometimes involved) was there... [MORE]	SD Goh	Feb 8, 2008 10:10
Perhaps, in the case of the Spanish, who in 1491 had just finished 700 years of expelling the Muslims who... [MORE]	D	Feb 8, 2008 15:03
I'd just like to point out that "arrogance" is hardly a Western monopoly. It is fundamental to the Chinese worldview;...	D	Feb 8, 2008 09:24
I think D makes some very good points (see "This book is an attempt to frame..." above). To get close... [MORE]	Billy Smith	Feb 12, 2008 11:29
The European superiority over China was substantially due to technology and industry. Europe also became superior in science. Here are some... [MORE]	John McCarthy	Feb 8, 2008 04:29
Darwin's seeing the predominant ruling form for mankind throughout history as 'empire' no doubt takes a page out of the... [MORE]	Shalom Freedman	Feb 8, 2008 02:11
"The West" has made great strides in science, technology and economic achievement. Western Europe's recovery from the devestation of two... [MORE]	Karen Ways	Feb 8, 2008 21:58
In the long history of human civilization, lies a impulse to have war. Jane Goodell in her research of chimpanzee... [MORE]	C	Feb 9, 2008 21:19
I enjoyed all the comments regarding this subject. Varied and informative. Especially agreed with Karen Ways "Social and Spiritual Dismantling". I... [MORE]	Patrizia von Lutzow-Vorbeck	Mar 16, 2008 16:46