The first inkling Lawrence Kudlow had that getting appointed as chairman of Governor Pataki’s commission to overhaul the state’s tax code would be “an entirely different sort of experience” was watching the governor’s State of the State address from the gallery, Mr. Kudlow said yesterday.

“The inevitable applause lines came about growing the state’s economy, rationalizing taxes, expanding opportunity, and the Democratic side just sat on their hands,” the economist said. “No one clapped. I didn’t think it was going to be that political. I sat there thinking there was bipartisan support for this.”

Reflecting on the political scrapes the commission is sure to prompt, he concluded: “Some people – the Democrats – never seem to learn about what taxes do to growth.”

Mr. Kudlow, 57, was the self-described “number three man” in President Reagan’s Office of Management and Budget from 1981 to 1983. His decision to return to work in government came about after a series of private dinners with Mr. Pataki in the autumn of 2003. He told the governor “point blank” that New York has two major problems: business creation and capital-investment inflow. That translates to a shortage of jobs being created and a reluctance on the part of companies here to expand, because of high taxes and regulatory hassles, Mr. Kudlow said. Moreover, he said, no one thought of New York as a place where people came to take risks economically.

“The reality of New York State is that risk capital has little incentive to plant here. Because of that, we are losing out on attracting high-wage, high-growth industries.”

Mr. Kudlow said Mr. Pataki agreed “the anti-growth policies” had to change immediately, and in December 2003 the governor’s senior policy adviser, John Cahill, called him to hash out what a tax-reform commission would do. Will the commission’s recommendations have any sway with the governor? “Yes, plenty,” Mr. Kudlow said. “The man is committed to growing the state’s economy. You can’t grow it with high taxes.”

The commission’s makeup is to be determined, Mr. Kudlow said, but will include academics, a couple of “think-tank types,” some Democrats, and some business leaders. “I’ll advocate and listen, ideally in equal parts, and probably learn a whole lot,” he said.

Long the right wing’s favorite economist, Mr. Kudlow has done his fair share of learning over the years – a good deal of it the hard way, via stints in rehab for well-publicized problems with alcohol and cocaine in the early 1990s – and insists he has come out the wiser.

Listening more patiently to the other side is what he does much better now, he said. That means the side questioning the wisdom of a tax cut, long Mr. Kudlow’s favorite prescription for any economic problem.

“I really care about understanding why someone disagrees with me,” he said, “because maybe I’m not looking as hard or as clearly as I should be. Maybe it’s a signal I should listen more.”

In the era of Michael Moore and Ann Coulter, it is rare for a pundit and talk-show host of any stripe to talk about listening more and talking less, but Mr. Kudlow said it was just that relatively new-found appreciation for others’ views that helps make a hit of “Kudlow & Cramer,” CNBC’s remarkably civil nightly gab-fest on Wall Street and politics.

“Jim Cramer is a great trader and hedge-fund manager and didn’t get where he is by screaming and not listening to others,” Mr. Kudlow said. “Me, I’m trying to follow the 12 steps and put into practice the humility I’ve been forced to develop.”

Once the market-moving chief economist of bond-trading powerhouse Bear Stearns, Mr. Kudlow – a graduate of both the University of Rochester and Princeton University’s Woodrow Wilson School of Advanced Studies – doesn’t really spend that much time doing the nuts and bolts of economic consulting anymore, and he has kept only a few, longtime clients.

“I’ve got a show, a blog, a nationally syndicated column, this tax commission, and I do some guest-hosting for talk-radio,” he said. “I think I can do more to keep the economy growing and the government out of people’s wallets – which is pretty much my life’s work – by doing what I do now.”

He was adamant that he gave up “scheming and politicking for long-term ambitions” when he was forced to leave Wall Street, and that, like many other recovering addicts, he is content to take things one day at a time.

He also said that, in contrast to his prior life, he is now focused on spending time with his wife, Judy, at home – which is a place in the city and a house in Redding, Conn.

Pressed on the future, however, he acknowledged that talk radio holds allure for him.

“Done right, you can reach out to individual listeners and engage them on radio,” Mr. Kudlow said. “They respect you enough to call, and they love you for taking the time to listen.”